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Removing Delta Squad, to fill other regiments.


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Right, i have no issue with Delta Squad, and when a server is thriving with activity and server population, they should be a thing. However, we all know what the current state of the server is, we aren't growing at the moment.. and in my personal opinion I dont believe we might be in the near future. I have talked with multiple members of Delta Squad on this issue and got their thoughts on the matter. 

 

The Issue with Delta Squad Currently (in my opinion)

 I have no issue with the current standing Delta Squad, and they are all fine people. However, With the addition to grimmock to Delta ( which he is fully entitled to, and had the full right to, I have 0 issue with him being able to choose what he can , it's his choice after all) , it left 501st in ... a shitter state than it already is in (no offence). Furthermore, with the state the server is in,  The admiral certainly does not require a special group of 4, When there is barley 4 in specified regiments actively. 

 

My Opinion to a solution on the matter ;

Right, in my opinion (and if you read the title) that, if the overall activity of the server is consistently down, wouldn't it be presumed better to Cancel out Delta Squad, allow them to choose a regiment of their choice to join, with the equivalent ranking to their current Job. (which if i am correct. Should be a Officer.) . You might be asking, "oh who's going to do the vitally important job of specialised missions what rarely happen for delta squad" elite regiments.  "Who's gonna guard the Admiral" , that could revert to CG, and depending the outcome of HG, allow one to take the presumed place. "Who's gonna shoot people?" , again.. you could get an Elite regiment or any other regiment to do so , in my opinion Shadow would be the better choice for this matter, as ynow cloak and snipers, what could go wrong. 

 

I would prefer to hear opinions on this matter, and what people would think, if this was such a thing.

 

p.s I love democracy.

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+1 

For the exact same reasons stated here. If and that's a BIG IF we grow to a good amount of players then DS should come back as regiments can afford to cut that loss. But now we cannot afford it especially in the 501st situation, now they are officially dead, zero active members. I think other regiments are soon to follow to. 

This post does spark the discussion on the issues the server is going through. 

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-1. The idea that removing a 4 man squad would solve our player problem is not realistic, at all. Also, removing a squad/ regiment will not fix the player problems solely because 1. We are not gaining any new players so we don't have more people coming into the community and 2. The command of regiments and the players just need more pressure put on them to actually get on. Referring back to point 1 of no new players coming in, that's the biggest issue not that 4 players are in a squad. 

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1 minute ago, Tesco said:

-1. The idea that removing a 4 man squad would solve our player problem is not realistic, at all. Also, removing a squad/ regiment will not fix the player problems solely because 1. We are not gaining any new players so we don't have more people coming into the community and 2. The command of regiments and the players just need more pressure put on them to actually get on. Referring back to point 1 of no new players coming in, that's the biggest issue not that 4 players are in a squad. 

-1 to your statement. It fluctuates more Command posistions into regiments, which can actively encourage and promote up the lower ranking standings of a regiment, having a selective squad of 4 to protect exclusively your ass, is a waste of man power, tactically and practically.

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Just now, Cud said:

-1 to your statement. It fluctuates more Command posistions into regiments, which can actively encourage and promote up the lower ranking standings of a regiment, having a selective squad of 4 to protect exclusively your ass, is a waste of man power, tactically and practically.

Adding some Warrant Officers and 1 2LT will not change how these regiments run. They will still have inactive command that do nothing and will not get more troops into said regiment due to not having new players coming in which is the main issue.

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1 minute ago, Tesco said:

Adding some Warrant Officers and 1 2LT will not change how these regiments run. They will still have inactive command that do nothing and will not get more troops into said regiment due to not having new players coming in which is the main issue.

so according to your 1st statement. adding Commissioned Officers, who are able to promote and move up troopers, will not solve inactive command, and to be an extension, will not be able to moved up to said command, when the standing command is proven incompetent? and you believe it is better, for a exclusive squad of 4, with limited to duties, who's primary goal is to listen to you, and you primarily , is more needed than active command in regiments?

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1 minute ago, Cud said:

so according to your 1st statement. adding Commissioned Officers, who are able to promote and move up troopers, will not solve inactive command, and to be an extension, will not be able to moved up to said command, when the standing command is proven incompetent? and you believe it is better, for a exclusive squad of 4, with limited to duties, who's primary goal is to listen to you, and you primarily , is more needed than active command in regiments?

As I had said, the command need to be pressured to be coming into the server as they keep their rank and go inactive and no one says anything.

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Just now, Tesco said:

As I had said, the command need to be pressured to be coming into the server as they keep their rank and go inactive and no one says anything.

and you believe that you are entitled to a exclusive squad of 4, on a server with overall lacking activity?.

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Just now, Cud said:

and you believe that you are entitled to a exclusive squad of 4, on a server with overall lacking activity?.

Not entitled lol. Just saying my opinion that removing Delta Squad will not fix the main problems of inactivity and lack of new players 

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Just now, Tesco said:

Not entitled lol. Just saying my opinion that removing Delta Squad will not fix the main problems of inactivity and lack of new players 

and you believe they should stay overall because?. 

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This will be interesting to read, I will post my opinions when I've read both sides at some point in the next few days.

This is becoming a negative reaction adding contest to degrade eachother's Forum rep.

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Just now, Cud said:

and you believe they should stay overall because?. 

I believe that they should stay on the server because 1. having DS being free is a pulling factor for new players as it is free compared to most of the other servers that you have to pay for. 2. removing 3 NCOs and 1 officer to a regiment will not solve the overall problem of inactivity from Command which is why some of them left in the first place. 3. it removes a variety from the server and can be off putting to new players when the server that they join hasn't much variation.

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2 minutes ago, Tesco said:

I believe that they should stay on the server because 1. having DS being free is a pulling factor for new players as it is free compared to most of the other servers that you have to pay for. 2. removing 3 NCOs and 1 officer to a regiment will not solve the overall problem of inactivity from Command which is why some of them left in the first place. 3. it removes a variety from the server and can be off putting to new players when the server that they join hasn't much variation.

to respond to those points.

1) Just because something is free, doesn't automatically make it a pulling factor , and with the information of the statistics of the people who have applied for Delta squad overall, has been proven to be not true. 

2) Adding 3 NCOs and 1 Officer will solve the issue of lack of hierarchical Command, as it Grants not only them, but the lower ranking members to move up 

 

and 3) the primary variety DS brung, was 4 people who bend the knee to the admiralty who occasionally shoot people on base. Which again, is something what can be filled by quite literally any other regiment on the server.

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1 minute ago, Cud said:

to respond to those points.

1) Just because something is free, doesn't automatically make it a pulling factor , and with the information of the statistics of the people who have applied for Delta squad overall, has been proven to be not true. 

2) Adding 3 NCOs and 1 Officer will solve the issue of lack of hierarchical Command, as it Grants not only them, but the lower ranking members to move up 

 

and 3) the primary variety DS brung, was 4 people who bend the knee to the admiralty who occasionally shoot people on base. Which again, is something what can be filled by quite literally any other regiment on the server.

The fact that it is free is a pulling factor for NEW players (Which we haven't been getting any). Yes DS don't get much applications when it comes to filling the role and that is because most of the server are long time players who know that DS isn't there thing or enjoy their current regiments. That shouldn't mean that it should be removed.

Adding 3 NCOs and 1 Officer will solve the issue as the Officer wont be able to promote anyone due to not being high enough to promote or the rest being near enough the same rank so in turn cannot promote. It would cause a little boost to 1 regiment (providing they all move to the same one) but not much would change overall except 1 person that can do tryouts but have no one attend due to lack of new players as I have said previously.

The variety they bring is not just listening to me and shooting a trooper occasionally and you know that. They bring the variety of not just any normal trooper, they have specialist armor  that can protect them from different environments, the odd time they would get special missions to do although that hasn't been happening for a while due to lack of actual events but that could be changing soon. Another difference is their loadout with their specialised weapons and equipment. Being able to work independently from everyone else as the squad contains the 4 vital roles. 

Removing Delta in my opinion is just removing a pulling factor for new players and provides very little help to a regiment providing they all even join the same one.

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3 minutes ago, Tesco said:

The fact that it is free is a pulling factor for NEW players (Which we haven't been getting any). Yes DS don't get much applications when it comes to filling the role and that is because most of the server are long time players who know that DS isn't there thing or enjoy their current regiments. That shouldn't mean that it should be removed.

Adding 3 NCOs and 1 Officer will solve the issue as the Officer wont be able to promote anyone due to not being high enough to promote or the rest being near enough the same rank so in turn cannot promote. It would cause a little boost to 1 regiment (providing they all move to the same one) but not much would change overall except 1 person that can do tryouts but have no one attend due to lack of new players as I have said previously.

The variety they bring is not just listening to me and shooting a trooper occasionally and you know that. They bring the variety of not just any normal trooper, they have specialist armor  that can protect them from different environments, the odd time they would get special missions to do although that hasn't been happening for a while due to lack of actual events but that could be changing soon. Another difference is their loadout with their specialised weapons and equipment. Being able to work independently from everyone else as the squad contains the 4 vital roles. 

Removing Delta in my opinion is just removing a pulling factor for new players and provides very little help to a regiment providing they all even join the same one.

1) so with your 1st statement there, that it is a factor for New players, and with your acknowledgement of the lack of pulling factor. it just shows that pulling factor is inefficient and doesn't work, plus not to mention the requirements, which cannot be fulfilled for new players with how Command is currently structured, and can be assisted with the boulstering, so your point is more or less pointless

 

2) it does solve the issue, to direct to 501st again, they are (other than ARC) the deadest regiment on the server, and with an addition of  an  NCO or Officer, if they are shown to be competent, they can be further moved up into Command. DS cant be moved up Command, DS are a single authority which doesn't fit in very well with AC.

 

3) the "Variety" Delta Squad Brings in practise, is just a different armoured 501st. They aren't used for anything practical other than standing around and doing nothing. 

The 'Specialist Armour' is just lore's tuff what was chaffed for, and if GM was added, guess what? DS ain't that special... plus with a magical click of a hazmat sut, that is no longer an issue. Furthermore, Delta Squad IS underused, because each and every "specialised weapon and equipment" is their own regiment. Fixer is both an engineer and a medic ( pretty much CE with less rights.) Scorch has a rocket launcher/ grenade launcher ( pretty much a 212th) . Boss has a shotgun (pretty much any attack regiment) and Sev has a sniper, which can be chalked up to a worse Shadow. 

 

Keeping Delta Squad in my opinion, is just unneeded, as each of their positions and intentions are and have been covered better by different regiments.  

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Well, i don't think that removing delta just for those 4 active players is a good thing. Why?

Loosing DS job which is unique on the server might disencourage them from being that active / playing at all. I mean that it might cause current members of DS not to enjoy the server anymore as they would be stripped from their specialty and forced to do the "common stuff". (i know there is a small chance for it to happen, but still, it might)

Instead, we should be discussing possible ways of inviting people into our server  to get rid of that "gap". There are constantly discussions about it on Discord Server, but everytime it ends up with just people complaining about it and not actually suggesting things. I know it might be a little off topic but its a important matter that in some way involves 501st and other regs state at the moment (at least in my opinion).

And i know that CG and Shadow are able to fill DS job, however i still believe that removing DS would not be a good idea just for the fact that, as Tesco said, its a pulling factor (at least in my personal experience) for new players to join our server (mostly since its free, has only 4 slots available and is tasked to do special missions) and we need them new players.
 

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Thank you Cud, yet again for another juicy, controversial and brain naggling post. 

 

One of the few foreseeable issue I see, is the fact that Delta Squad are "The best", having a squadron of 4 people. The drive of being in Delta is what actually makes said players active, without this specialisation and recognition of their capabilities, they may just leave. 

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3 minutes ago, Scooby Doo said:

Well, i don't think that removing delta just for those 4 active players is a good thing. Why?

Loosing DS job which is unique on the server might disencourage them from being that active / playing at all. I mean that it might cause current members of DS not to enjoy the server anymore as they would be stripped from their specialty and forced to do the "common stuff". (i know there is a small chance for it to happen, but still, it might)

Instead, we should be discussing possible ways of inviting people into our server  to get rid of that "gap". There are constantly discussions about it on Discord Server, but everytime it ends up with just people complaining about it and not actually suggesting things. I know it might be a little off topic but its a important matter that in some way involves 501st and other regs state at the moment (at least in my opinion).

And i know that CG and Shadow are able to fill DS job, however i still believe that removing DS would not be a good idea just for the fact that, as Tesco said, its a pulling factor (at least in my personal experience) for new players to join our server (mostly since its free, has only 4 slots available and is tasked to do special missions) and we need them new players.
 

i have already discussed to multiple members of delta squad on this, and to my knowledge from a statement form one of them. They all believe that they would be willing, and would be fair to be removed *if* they received the equivalent rank upon leaving, so upon that i do believe that point is invalid. 

your second point seems fair enough.

Well to acknowledge your statement there, it isn't blatantly advertised that Delta Squad is free, and to common knowledge you would have to go into a server, and intentionally ask on about the policy of Delta squad, like the policy of Jedi and that's current standing. Furthermore, the requirements for Delta Squad states that you have to become at minimum SGT, which in turn, there is no Command to do so.

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4 minutes ago, Cud said:

1) so with your 1st statement there, that it is a factor for New players, and with your acknowledgement of the lack of pulling factor. it just shows that pulling factor is inefficient and doesn't work, plus not to mention the requirements, which cannot be fulfilled for new players with how Command is currently structured, and can be assisted with the boulstering, so your point is more or less pointless

 

2) it does solve the issue, to direct to 501st again, they are (other than ARC) the deadest regiment on the server, and with an addition of  an  NCO or Officer, if they are shown to be competent, they can be further moved up into Command. DS cant be moved up Command, DS are a single authority which doesn't fit in very well with AC.

 

3) the "Variety" Delta Squad Brings in practise, is just a different armoured 501st. They aren't used for anything practical other than standing around and doing nothing. 

The 'Specialist Armour' is just lore's tuff what was chaffed for, and if GM was added, guess what? DS ain't that special... plus with a magical click of a hazmat sut, that is no longer an issue. Furthermore, Delta Squad IS underused, because each and every "specialised weapon and equipment" is their own regiment. Fixer is both an engineer and a medic ( pretty much CE with less rights.) Scorch has a rocket launcher/ grenade launcher ( pretty much a 212th) . Boss has a shotgun (pretty much any attack regiment) and Sev has a sniper, which can be chalked up to a worse Shadow. 

 

Keeping Delta Squad in my opinion, is just unneeded, as each of their positions and intentions are and have been covered better by different regiments.  

Its more of a pulling factor to have DS than to not have it. From my own personal experience seeing a server that has hardly any variation is off putting so having a elite squad is a big bonus. Putting the lack of new players solely on Delta Squad is unfair. a big issue is that people want to join a server that has a good amount of players, which a lot of ours are currently inactive or on LOA so it would be unfair to put a lack of new players solely on Delta Squad.

If people could move up the ranks a lot wouldn't have left their previous regiments to use scooby or Grimmock as examples. They left 501st which I believe to be due to lack of activity from other members and no command to do things like promotions. so adding an NCO which Grimmock was originally would not solve the issue as it wasn't solved while he was there for a long time as well as Scooby. Yes DS can't be ranked up due to them being a squad and not a regiment, the idea behind it is that they have high clearance levels and the rest of their special loadout to make up for it. Delta is not also a single authority squad, they listen to the highest member of Fleet (Admiral) and the highest member of Army Command (Battalion General) so that way they are not solely listening to fleet but that they can be ordered by the army aswell.

Your 3rd point is just kind of describing the whole point of them being a squad but just saying that other regiments do it better or that they do it. Fixer doesn't have less rights than a CE, Scorch isn't pretty much a 212th (lol), Boss isn't just any other attack regiment and Sev isn't just a worst shadow. This just goes to show that you don't have much knowledge about Delta Squad, all of them have different specialities to make them function as an Elite Squad that get compared to the null class ARCs. Each of them are better at their roles than the regiments that have the same equipment but they are used for doing their own special missions rather than being used as a general troopers. Also to address the armor, GM have their Nova that makes them immune to flame damage yes, thats a pulling factor for GM and yes Troopers can just equip a hazmat suit and be immune to radiation like DS, the special point is that they don't have to equip these suits and when it comes to being in a mission that has radiation areas (that big fallout wasteland map idk what its called) DS don't have to wait to get a hazmat spawner they can go in themselves. The way you are painting DS is extremely one sided in hopes to sway people in your favour.

Ps, people left 501st because when they were apart of them, the issue wasn't fixed nor was it getting fixed like you propose it would.

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5 minutes ago, Cud said:

i have already discussed to multiple members of delta squad on this, and to my knowledge from a statement form one of them. They all believe that they would be willing, and would be fair to be removed *if* they received the equivalent rank upon leaving, so upon that i do believe that point is invalid. 

your second point seems fair enough.

Well to acknowledge your statement there, it isn't blatantly advertised that Delta Squad is free, and to common knowledge you would have to go into a server, and intentionally ask on about the policy of Delta squad, like the policy of Jedi and that's current standing. Furthermore, the requirements for Delta Squad states that you have to become at minimum SGT, which in turn, there is no Command to do so.

Maybe a name change for the servers list to include them features would be a good choice, just an idea.

There is no command to do so because no one is putting pressure on them.

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Due to a management decision a long time ago, when we were balancing regiments and deciding on squads, it was decided Delta would be the single remaining squad on the server, then other squads would return as the population returned- we do not plan to remove this, especially for such a justification suggested in this thread.

Frankly in the long run, 4 players in a squad will not help fill other regiments, assuming they all pick a different regiment, thats one player for four different regiments, which isn't going to help the community at all. Delta Squad individually is currently a functioning squad, and also finally full, therefore I think we'd be doing more harm by removing it.

Hope this is agreeable.

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Your suggestion/bug report has now changed status to denied, see the replies to this topic for the reason. If your bug report was denied, it is because it was not able to be re-produced by a member of the development team, or because you submitted a bug report that is invalid and either will not be fixed, or is not fixable (such as asking us to fix an issue with the game itself).

Thank you for taking your time to write your suggestion/bug report.

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